More Trinket Choices? Bring It On!

By Saffrin on January 30th, 2010

In this edition of the Blue Bar, we focus on Blizzard's future plan regarding trinkets, and discuss Death Knight tanking in extreme detail.

RNG > Trinkets

There are some aspects of trinkets for which we think we can do better. For example, it’s annoying when a superior item is on a lower tier of content to where you feel like you have to argue with your guild to go back and farm easy bosses or run a 10 player version when everyone else wants to do 25. Many of the trinkets probably represent too big a dps (or equivalent) jump given how difficult it can be to acquire them. It’s also easy for us to fall into a rut of offering basically the same one every time (often because we know players like it) rather than experimenting with different things. We like to try new things to keep gear interesting for players as we know some have been evaluating trinkets for over five years now.

We also probably just need to drop more of them. That doesn’t mean they should be trivial to acquire, but when say a caster only has 2 good options in Ulduar and 1 requires a hard mode, then there is going to be ton of competition when they do drop. We know it’s rough when the trinket you have been wanting finally drops and you have to roll against 10 other people for it. Having more trinkets would mean more variety, which means players may want different ones and ultimately will be a little more different from their friends/guildmates.

Bornakk (Source)

There are two important points I wish to make:

Put useful trinkets on the badge vendor. Consider putting trinkets of similar power to those of the best trinkets of the past tier on the newest emblem vendor. For example, seeing as the caster DPS trinket on the emblem vendor is such a bad option for anyone that isn't a fresh 80 (thanks to all the hit rating); make a trinket similar in power to the heroic version of Reign of the Dead. By charging a decent number of emblems of frost, it will still take upwards of 2-3 weeks to attain it. That way, anyone who missed out on the trinkets of the previous tier because of RNG (the random number generator) can still keep up with those who were more fortunate.

Follow through with the idea of making more useful trinkets drop in general, as suggested by Bornakk himself.

It would go a long way if there were several good trinket options in a new raiding dungeon, beyond just one good option that has a normal and heroic version like we're used to. If it can be taken a step further and given interesting effects, then by all means do so.

Let's please just avoid the situation that almost all raiding casters can recall of having to go back and farm Sartharion for an Illustration of the Dragon Soul. Or using a more recent example; having to return to the Trial of the Crusader in hopes that a Reign of the Dead will drop.

Death Knight tanks are scraping the bottom of the threat barrel.

... There are still plenty of DK tanks in Icecrown.

The death knight was a new class with a lot of cool abilities, lore and a great starting experience. It doesn't surprise me at all that a lot of players flocked to them. When it turned out they were overpowered in dps, PvP and tanking early on in Lich King, that probably encouraged more players to pick them up or stick with them. So it's natural that after several patches the numbers have evened out a bit more, but there are still plenty of DKs and they seem to be doing just fine tanking Icecrown. We'll see if things look different when the hard modes unlock. If DKs (of appropriate gear and skill) struggle on those fights, we'll buff them.

Ghostcrawler (Source)

I am one of the aforementioned Death Knight tanks; although I often stick to tanking 10mans now, and only step in to tank a 25man if the situation requires it.

I don't mind if Death Knights aren't the greatest tanks right now, but I will start to mind if they don't start doing extremely competitive damage soon. During ToC, our DPS was perhaps too competitive. Now however; although most of it has to do with the changes to scourge strike and the conversion to armor penetration gear, we're not able to keep up with some of the heavy hitters like Mages, Hunters, and Rogues. I am optimistic that DPS Death Knights will start to do really well when outfitted in mostly ICC gear loaded with armor penetration, but we'll have to wait and see. If Death Knights continue to get edged out on DPS, it will be much more difficult to be content with our weakness in tanking, since neither spec will be top tier.

Now back to the discussion of tanking. The one thing I would very much like to see improved regarding Death Knight tanking is the quality of life element; with snap threat being at the foundation of the problem.

When I play a Warrior and find myself tanking a large pull, I have multiple options for snap threat. The main option, devastate, has very little in the way of limitations and I can just tab-target devastate each mob as necessary. Once you factor in the power of shield slam, a short cooldown spell which is a snap threat miracle in one button, you'll have very little problems. If that's not enough, there are ways to buy time to generate more threat through stuns; and if all else fails, just pop challenging shout.

Now let's look at a similar situation when I'm tanking on my Death Knight. If too many mobs stream in mid-fight, I'll find my runes on cooldown, and will have to take extras steps to ensure that I get and maintain threat. One of the best ways to do so would be to use empower rune weapon which is on a 5 minute cooldown! Good luck tab attacking more than a few mobs with any major strike. It's rune based silly Death Knight, not GCD based. Sorry!

I used a Prot Warrior in my comparison earlier, because besides having heavy experience playing one, they're generally regarded as being only slightly better than the current version of the Death Knight tank. Prot Paladins and Feral Druids are on a level all their own.

Threat is usually not a problem until you run with Fury Warriors and Ret Paladins who do upwards of 15k DPS on trash pulls. Due to the limitations of the rune system, I feel far more helpless than any other tanking class in that situation. I have to be okay with letting people die to trash, and that doesn't sit right with me. When a Paladin, Druid, or Warrior tanks the same pull, that high DPS Fury Warrior has a much higher chance of survival simply because these classes aren't having to wait on their runes to come off cooldown to generate threat.

Thanks to the wonders that are misdirection and tricks of the trade, the tanking threat situation isn't nearly as bad as it could be. It makes tanking most encounters, including most of the hard mode bosses in the game, almost trivial, even for a Death Knight.

If the Death Knight tanking situation improves, I may consider taking a more central tanking role in Cataclysm. But for now, I'll just happily play as DPS and try to win on the occasional damage meter.

In other news! Arcane Mages are awesome right now, so take advantage of them by giving them PW:S for incoming damage (to power incanter's absorption) and feed them your innervates. Also, Warlocks will have a cool new Soul Shard system in Cataclysm which will put the current one to shame.

3 comments so far. Add yours!

  • My opinion on DK Tanking:

    On the fun scale, I really enjoy tanking on my DK.  I enjoy the DK system in general, although I do believe it is a little more challenging than it should be - but I think its that challenge that I like.  There seem to be 2 major flaws with DK tanking right now, one being threat, and the other being no form of block mechanic. 

    In regards to threat, I don’t know if I am ‘doing all I could’ to increase it, since DW-Frost is supposedly more threat than 2H Frost.  Unfortunately I haven’t picked up reasonable one handers (despite my efforts) which would allow me to test this.  That said, with tricks and MD’s single target threat is never a problem, and with Howling Blast and 15sec Death and Decays I do a reasonable amount of AoE threat as well. 

    Regardless of the fact that if I try as hard as possible I seem to manage okay, I am certainly not strong, as when I tab around I constantly see Paladins getting closer and closer to pulling agro (probably not even trying to) and I can really do nothing to expand the gap. 

    I think Threat Generation in Icecrown across the board is just low for DKs.  Damage is also low, as you would think a guy swinging a 2hander would be doing more damage while tanking than a guy with a shield.

    In regards to block, it has become apparent that DKs need a block/absorb mechanic via being in Frost Presence - I’d suggest a permanent shield type ability based on your armor (say 2% of your armor).  That would absorb roughly 600dmg per hit on every incoming hit, which wouldn’t make a gigantic difference in a raiding scenario (although that 600 might creep up to 1k temporarily), but in heroics it would be the difference between night and day.  I have 52k life, and ~34k armor without trinkets procced/UbA/Pot but I get absolutely trained if I run a heroic at the pace that I like to run them at.  In fact, I can’t.  Where any other tanking class can chain pull, if I get more than a couple mobs on me at once (hey I’m a tank!) I get steamrolled, and it is really not okay.

  • A frost badge RotD would make me smile.

    Having more viable trinket options would definitely be a lot better. At the end of the day most of us would still sit there waiting for the one that is the highest dps upgrade for our class, but at least we wouldn’t be sitting there with item level 213 trinkets. Also with more options it is likely that different trinkets will be better than others for different classes, which could reduce the competition (if done correctly).

  • Yeah I’m with you and Wargy here, I myself am currently using 2 weak trinkets but unfortunately since there’s so few caster trinket options it’ll be a long time before I see upgrades there.  If there were more options or even just slightly worse options from frost badges or the 10 man outside of spyglass it’d make things a lot easier in that department.

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